will he paint those issues as vital? whether we commence another war in the middle east, whether we begin to kill not just obama care but begin killing medicare? do we commence a state by state ban of abortion? do we deliver tax cuts? it's important that the president do this for the basic reason that people in this country know what they are voting for and if they decide against. and that's "hardball" for now. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, no hiding from biden. for months mitt romney and paul ryan have been running from their records, hiding their extreme far right agenda behind platitudes and big promises, trying to pin them down on specifics was like trying to

nail jello to the wall. but that all stopped last night. we'll talk about all of it in the show tonight, how vice president biden took the fight to paul ryan on issue after issue. on taxes, on medicare, on abortion, on their plan to privatize social security and to gut medicare. joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> thanks for the translation. okay. >> malarkey.

a bunch of stuff. i love it. i love it. biden systematically took apart ryan's arguments for less government, let's accountability, let's community. it got so bad, paul ryan was driven to drink. literally. he went back to that cup of water over and over again. by our last count, at least 21 time. what's the matter there, mr. ryan? got a little cotton mouth? last night the romney/ryan effort was exposed as a shield for the extreme far right and vice president biden drove that point home again and again today, campaigning right in ryan's home state of wisconsin. >> it was made clear last night that they don't believe in protecting a woman's access to health care. it was made very clear that they do not believe a woman has a right to control her own body.

these are are the folks who talk about 47% of the american people being unwilling to take responsibility. of it's time romney and ryan say we're going to level the playing field. we're going to give you a fair shot again. >> paul ryan has been saying he wanted a big debate. well, last night he got one and today their whole dishonest campaign is sorry he did. joining me now, dana milbank for "the washington post" and marge. >> nowhere more than when biden nailed him on the gop's attack

on the stimulus. watch. >> i love my friend here. i'm not allowed to show letters but go to our website. he sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for here in the state of wisconsin? we sent millions of dollars. >> you did ask for stimulus money? >> on two occasions we applied for constituents applying for grants. >> i love that. i love that. this is such a bad program and he writes me a program saying the reason we need the stimulus, it will create growth and jobs. his words. >> dana, isn't that the crux of the hypocrisy of the gop? >> we knew about the letters and they have been used before. they have used them in stump

speeches. to see him confronted with it on the stage there, i think that was the essence of what made biden successful last night and verges of that were repeated over and over again. the week before the president thought he was going to rise above the fray and he really did it very successfully tied ryan to some of the unpopular things that the house republicans have done on issue after issue. he kept it to him all 90 minutes. >> and marge, it wasn't just a gotchya moment. they have been making all of this stink about the stimulus. >> when politicians do one thing and say another, nothing else says more, i would like

something in my district. biden added a lot of detail. so it really was engaging. it was a very specific fact check but also engaging. i wish we had joe biden, instead of close captions, you had joe biden interpreting everything that paul ryan said. it would be great if we had joe biden comments. it's important to not let these candidate get away showing that their actions don't -- they are playing politics all the time. >> yeah. and another favorite moment for me, dana, was the jack kennedy moment when ryan struggles to defend romney's tax plan. >> how is that? >> you can cut tax rates by 20% and still preserve these preferences for middle class workers. >> not mathematically possible.

>> it has never been done before. >> it has been done a couple times before. >> jack kennedy -- >> oh, now you're jack kennedy? >> done exactly right and is absurd. >> you know, i think the republicans that i saw during the debate and after were saying, that was rude he wasn't allowing him to talk? you know, what's wrong with that? i like the idea that he was doing the constant interjex. it was getting under ryan's skin. it was rattling him. what's wrong with the grimmaces, the constant heckling? the policies were one thing and i think getting in his face was just the right medicine last night. >> now, let me ask the big picture political question, dana, and i want margie to weigh

in as well. the democratic base for mr. b biden or did it just help ril up the base? >> it did clearly energyize the base. people are asking does that turn off independents or undecideds. i think even if it did that to some extent, what needed to be done was the reverse, the narrative that had been in place since a week ago that the democrats were back on their heels on the defensive. joe biden was not on the defensive last night. he was dominating in that debate and i think you see the media narratives are often overdone. it was done last week and may be done this week. but it at least changed the way that the story is being told now and that's what biden really

needed to do. >> margie, what was the fallout from this? what was the assets gained by the democrats if in fact biden performed well last night there was a cbs poll done and half of them said that biden won as opposed to a quarter or third said that ryan won. a new poll just got released just as i was heading over here, a reuter's poll, and that showed that biden won. two of the three polls that have been released show that voters gave biden the edge. it also, you know, really pokes a hole in this myth of ryan as somebody who, you know, says what he means when he's talking about the facts because he really hedged in a lot of places. he didn't offer clear distinctions with the president on their foreign policy. in numerous cases he dodged a question as the campaign has

repeatedly on what kind of taxes they would support. so there's a lot of places where -- and obviously the thing that we were talking about, the stimulus letter. it pokes a hole that ryan is a policy purist. >> now, talking about where he pauses, it was revealing that he had a long pause when he was asked about abortion rights under the romney/ryan administration. watch this. >> if the romney/ryan ticket is elected, be should those who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried? >> we don't think that unelected judges should make this decision that people through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus in society for the democratic party should make this termination. >> you know, that paul says it all. isn't that paul pause indicative that ryan knows that his views

are really unpopular with the average american voter? margie? >> yes. and people compared that to a gore sigh but we had a ryan sigh. he gets this sort of -- he gets a little testy. he want to show that he has some spear yor tea. and republicans were on the wrong side of the opinion, even for voters who wear abortion is not necessarily there number one vote driver. it's the biggest gender gap in terms of importance of the vote. on top of that, for an all-time high, a couple polls show an all-time high of voters who say it's a certain set of values. that's new. we didn't used to have that. when ryan and romney say, well, this is what i believe in is tho so this is going to be the law,

ryan's position that we've talked about before is to the very far extreme of where the republicans are. >> now, does that come across clearly, dana, how extreme their position is? i mean, we're talking about not al debate as you would have a decade ago about pro life, pro choice. we're talking about ultrasound invasions. >> sure. >> we're talking about people redefining rape, legitimate rape, forceable rape. this is some extreme stuff we're talking about. >> reverend, that's also why you saw the pause there. it wasn't just a debate between ohio biden and paul ryan. there's a debate between paul ryan and mitt romney. and you can see him saying, am i answering for romney in 2012 or for paul ryan in 2016 when he hopes to be running for president? he has a very different position. he was like, okay, i'll go with the party line and say what it is for now. you saw the same thing, for that matter, on social security and

medicare where he said, this is my position but i'm not representing the position of the guy who has chosen me to run with him. so you could see that sort of internal debate within the republican party playing out as a subtheme last night. >> dana milbank and marg margie omero, thank you for your time this evening. >> thank you. coming up, the fight for fairness. it's the fight we have to have. and privatize social security, that's what paul ryan said. the true extremism of what ryan! romney really want. plus, fox news is in an up roar. he must be doing something right. the right wing freakout and why it shows that they don't have a leg or argument to stand on. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc.

>> thoughts going through paul ryan's head at the very moment that that picture was taken? number 9, my biceps are cut like taxes for the wealthiest 1%. and maybe now people will take me seriously. there you go. [ male announcer ] how do you measure happiness? by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan,

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inside all of the spending last night, paul ryan had some very big news. it was in response to this. >> lawmakers that stand with president bush when he was seeking to privatize social security? >> privatize social security, a terrible idea. it's on the table and ryan doesn't want to take it back. that's next.

for years government has been talking about what to do about sewing security and last night they got to that debate and it didn't quite turn out the way he had hoped the american people saw that ryan is trying to ruin the social safety net that's been in place for many years and on which million of americans rely. take social security. he wants to privatize it and he said so last night. >> you were one of the few lawmakers to stand with president bush when he was seeking to privatize social security? >> for younger people, what i

said then, is let younger americans have a voluntary choice of making their money work faster for them within the social security system. >> so much for the security and social security. mr. ryan would put your mercy at the stock market. ryan ran out of the room to hide his extreme position. >> we will honor this position and we are not going to jeopardize this program but we have to save it. >> you are jeopardizing the program. you are changing it to supreme and support. the bottom line, people are going to have to may more money out of their pocket. >> it's a voucher. who do you believe? the ama? me? a guy who has fought his whole life for this? a guy that would put a plan in place that knowing cuts $6,400 a year more to the cost of medicare. >> that's what congressman ryan would knowingly do to seniors.

vice president biden unmasked what he and his running mate really think about medicare. >> these guys hadn't been big on medicare from the beginning. their party has not been big on medicare from the beginning and they've always been about social security as little as you can do. look, folks, use your commonsense. who do you trust on this? a man who introduced a bill that would raise it $6400 a year knowing it and passing it and romney saying he signed it or me and the president? >> who do you trust? if you care about the program so many rely on, it's not even a close call. joining me now is former pennsylvania governor ed rendell, now an nbc political analyst and e.j. dionne, columnist for "the washington

post" and msnbc contributor. thank you for being here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> governor rendell, romney/ryan are taking on a fight about medicare and social security. how do you think it went for them with voters in pennsylvania and ohio and elsewhere? >> well, it was a real bad night for them last night. and joe biden made the point -- and he actually could have made it more directly. when medicare and social security were being debated in the '30s and the '60s, republicans called it socialized medicine. they never liked medicare. they never liked social security. they warned that it was going to drag us into the ditch. well, medicare and social security made this country the envy of the world because our seniors know that they are going to be protected. they are not going to have to worry about finding up in the poor house and joe biden made that point. i'm sort of amazed that the polls were not even more dramatic on biden's side.

that issue which you properly point out, rev, on foreign policy, it wasn't even close. i'm not sure if you hear paul ryan talking about foreign policy, you can visualize him as a president. so i think it was a big win and particularly as you said, the word unmasked, governor romney tries to sort of hide the plans on social security and plmedica but the truth went out last night. joe biden said it right. who do you trust? the party that has always been there, protected social security through the years or people who have hated it from the beginning and want to change it? >> e.j., let's not make any mistake about this. ryan has been looking to hit social security up for some time now. look at the facts. in 2010 budget, he would take $4.9 trillion out of social

security trust fund. it would have cut middle income workers social security by 39%. it would raise the retirement age even for those who physically can't do their jobs anymore. and he was a big part of the bush privatization plan as new yorker points out in 2005. quote, ryan laid the groundwork for the republican agenda should bush be elected. as a 34-year-old representative, he set out to privatize social security. this is a big radical plan of his. >> right. this is a big deal. first of all, i think we should give vice president biden some kind of humanitarian award because he talks so many democrats out of the suicidal mood that they have been in since the last debate and i think the demoral lie zags is over precisely because some of these issues were put on the table. i think ryan made a real mistake on the social security

privatization and if went to the fact that he was torn between defending his own positions and perhaps looking forward to 2016 and beyond and defending the interest of the romney/ryan ticket. social security wasn't on the table as an issue in this election. president obama -- and i don't think he should have done this in his debate, said there isn't much difference between mitt romney and me on social security. stunningly, privatization is on the table. and on medicare, i think a lot of doubts were put in the heads of a lot of senior people and otherwise about what this plan really is. >> yeah. >> so i think on both issues, biden put issues on the table that democrats needed to have on the table. >> now, governor, does that not me mean now that the debate between the president and mr. romney that privatization social security is is now on the table,

there has to be a big different between the governor and the president now? >> right. but as e.j. said, the president made a very serious mistake because governor romney can go back and say, whoa, mr. president. didn't you say in our first debate that there are very little plans on social security? so why are you talking about this now? and that would be very confusing to voters. >> if the president pinned him down and said, my understanding now is that you're talking privatization. is that not what you're talking? >> and that would be -- >> i don't know that mr. romney wants to walk into that. >> because you're right. at that point the president gives him a choice. either repudiate his running mate or say privatization is on the table. >> and i don't know that he wants to do either. >> either one. >> let me ask you this, e.j. when ryan says -- he argues that social security is going bankrupt, let me show you what he said. >> let's talk about medicare entitlements.

both medicare and social security are going broke and taking a larger share of tbudge the process. will americans under these programs have to change for the programs to survive? mr. ryan? >> absolutely. medicare and social security are going bankrupt. these are indisputable facts. >> when you look at the facts, he's distorting them. medicare will be able to meet 88% of it is obligation until 2085 even if there's no changes made. social security is funded for another two decades. is he trying to scare people into his policies, e.j.? >> the answer is clearly yes. i mean, this idea that social security is going bankrupt, people who favor privatization because they want to scare younger people into thinking social security isn't going to be there. medicare does have real problems that has to do with the rising

health care costs, which we do have to do something about. but social security has problems that can be fixed very easily and are not imminent. so i don't think we should let it scare young people and that it won't be there. and they don't have pensions anymore and to take the guarantee out of social security is to take the only secured retirement that a lot of americans have away from them. >> there's no doubt about it, we know exactly where they stand and privatization is on the table and i think we need to deal with that. governor ed rendell and e. e.j. dionne, thanks. have a good weekend. >> good to be with you both. >> you too, e.j. coming up, the return of the 47%. joe biden went there over and over again. how can they spend this one? and here it comes.

the right wing and fox news have a new one, from skewed polls to cooking the books and now they are taking issue with the smile. oh, boy. >> more campaign news in a new poll found only 47% of voters find mitt romney to be trustworthy. then romney is like, i hope it's not the same 47% that i don't care

we're back with joe biden's big night setting the social media on fire. facebook claims that biden got 36% more mentions than ryan. and check out the top three rise in google searches. the top search was biden. next was the word focornflating and then the word malarkey. >> it's never been done before. >> it's been done a couple times. >> jack kennedy lowered -- >> oh, now you're jack kennedy? >> you're no jack kennedy moment, lloyd benson would be proud. meantime, twitter was ablazed with celebrity involvement.

bill maher wrote, hello, 911, there's an old child beating on my tv. and post debate results just in. ryan now at 6% body fat, 94% water. the "politicsnation" facebook crowd was plugged in, too. marilynn said, thank god for joe's crisp vision he painted on behalf of the middle class. janet says her new favorite word is malarkey and roger was happy. the good old 47 was brought back to life. we want to hear what you think, too. head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and "like" us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. we'll be talking about how to return of the 47% ruined paul ryan's night. that's next. that was me still taking insulin

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"politicsnation." in a long campaign, sometimes it gets hard to get focused. but last night, 51 million people watched as joe biden took the fight right where it needed to be. he went to the core of what this election is all about. the fight for fairness. he exposed the romney ryan vision for america for what it is. a vision that 47% of americans are moochers, a vision pitting makers against takers. a deeply cynical, ugly view of division where the tax policies favor the rich and the poor and middle class are left on their own. >> we knew we had to go after the middle class. we made sure we cut taxes for the middle class. but it shouldn't be surprising for a man who says 47% of the americans are unwilling to take responsibility of their own lives. i've had it up to here about the 47%. it's about time they take some

responsibility here. they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field and they are holding hostage the middle class tax cut. the middle class got knocked on their heels. the great recession hurt them. >> they need some help now. it was real. it was powerful. and reminding everyone how desperately out of touch ryan and romney are. joining us now, the nation's largest public employee union and jack bernstein, msnbc contributor and former chief economist for vice president joe biden. thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you, rev. >> good evening, al. >> i want both of you to weigh in on this. lee, you're in columbus, ohio. is it your feeling that it will resonate with voters in that state? >> i've been to cincinnati and

toledo. i'm in columbus today. not only with members but people across the community, across the spectrum, they are excited about this election. they watched that debate last night. they watched joe biden clean the clock of the supposed economic intellectual guru of the party. cleaned his clock. and they talk about the real issues at impact, whether it's social security. it's clear now that republicans want to privatize social security. they talked about medicare. they want to make medicare into a coupon program. that's what paul ryan and mitt romney are talking about. our folks are energized, mobilized, they are knocking on doors and passing out leaflets. >> jared? >> look, ohio is a state where the unemployment rate peaked well above the national level. 11%. where the national peaked at 10.

and now it got to the 7s well before the national unemployment level got there. it peaked higher and got lower. and a very clear factor at play here is the rescue of the auto industry. now, a lot of people think of the auto industry as the big plants at the end of the line that build the cars and, of course, that is the end of the line. but what is really going on in ohio are a bunch of small businesses in the auto supply chain and there's been thousands and thousands of good, middle class jobs created in that supply chain that absolutely wouldn't be here absence the president's interventions and people in ohio know that and it's a very important fact that the vice president hit on yesterday and again drew an important distinction with his opponent. >> lee, it's critical because no republican has ever won without ohio and you're all over ohio today. i happen to know that you're from ohio. isn't it hard for the

republicans to paint a picture that is against what's going on in terms of unemployment? let me go back to you, area red. that was the point that you were making. >> yeah, that's very key. and in a midwestern state where the autos play such a key role and you've got that manufacturing sector coming back, i'd be interested to hear lee talk about that as well. ohio, the state that republicans have to win or at least they always had to win to win the election, with the unemployment rate going down under 8% in the 7s, isn't it true that they give

the republicans an even more difficult task to get ohions to vote for them? >> i think it's going to be very difficult but we've got to continue to educate them and knock on doors. if you look at the rebirth of the auto industry, mitt romney did not support that. >> i've been saying this across ohio. it has an impact of what is going on across this country. there's a small auto center plant 100 workers supported and they are being laid off and what is interesting about this they brought the chinese into fr freeport, illinois and had to be trained by the workers being laid off. the connection is this. bain capital is responsible for

this. bain capital. and not only that, al, they came in and there was an american flag that was in that plant. they took down the american flag and raised the chinese flag. that's not the kind of america we want to be. that's not what barack obama and joe biden stand for. but this is bain capital doing that. there's got to be a connection between bain capital and mitt romney. >> they hung these workers are going to be laid off. i was talking to the president of the union the other day about this. we've got to talk about these issues. we've got to make sure that people understand the direction that mitt romney and paul ryan want to send this country.

>> listening to lee, i'm reminding about the role that labor unions have played in this election. i don't think we talk about it as much as we should. it's very clear, for years of analysis, the impact of unions in the economy, one of the things unions do very well is they help ensure a more equitable distribution of the growth that their members, our workforce actually produced and we know there's been a huge split between the economy's productivity and compensation of the typical worker. unions have always worked to make sure that the slices of the pie are more evenly distributed. it's a function that is missing as you see battles in wisconsin go up very strong. >> gentlemen, let me ask you this. when we talk about fairness, the big issue of tax cuts, biden was able to corner ryan on the tax cuts they really can't explain. watch this. >> deny those loopholes and deductions to higher income taxpayers so more of their income is taxed which has a

broader base of -- lower tax rates across the board. here's why i'm saying this. what we're saying is -- >> i hope i'm going to get time to respond to this. >> tax rate 20%, start with the wealthy, work with congress. >> and you guarantee this math will add up? >> absolutely. six studies have guaranteed. six studies have verified that this adds up. >> let me translate that. let me have a chance to translate that. >> now, jared, the nonpartisan tax policy that studied this plan says it is not mathematically possible. >> correct. here's the arithmetic that the vice president was getting at, to attach numbers to this. in the year 2014, the tax cut that governor romney is proposing cuts $215 billion from people whose income is over $200,000.

if you close all of the loopholes that he's put on the table, that gets you to $160 billion. there's a $90 billion difference. so they can't offset their tax cuts, their $250 billion tax cuts with 160 of loophole clo closures. not one thing representative ryan said or mitt romney has said has answered that question and they refuse to even get close to it by specifying what loopholes they would even cut. they haven't announced one yet. it's really hurting them, as it should. >> i'm out of time, lee and jared. i certainly want to talk to somebody in free poport, illino about that flag change. thank you both for being here. have a great weekend. >> you too, al. what do you call a moderator who asks smart questions, challenges politicians, and has a lifetime of experience?

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who won the debate? a poll of undecided voters has joe biden winning, 50% to 31%. but the right wing can't handle it. the polls are skewed. it's a liberal media conspiracy. the chicago team is cooking this up. and now a new one. all they can talk about is joe biden smiling and laughing. oh, no, how dare he smile. boo-hoo. >> it was almost uncontrollable laughter, almost unhinged, rude, condescending, means at times, interrupti interruptive. >> a man who would not shut up, a mean-spirited, rude, overbearing disrespectful vice president of the united states. >> i thought that joe biden came

across like a guy that you meet at a cocktail party for some political event, an obnoxious drunk who is loud and boisterous and interrupts every conversation. >> anyone smell the fear in the air? joining me now is joe madison, nationally syndicated radio host of mornings with madison. joe, thanks for being here. >> i'm trying not to smile. >> i can't help it. it beats crying. they are talking about laughter. what does that tell you? >> look, it tells you that's the only thing they can hang their hat on. any time the most important thing you can say about your opponent in a debate is what he's wearing or how he looks means that you lost the debate on substance. reverend, just pray for me for a moment. joe biden opened up a can of whoop you know what and he enjoyed doing it. he cleaned his clock. and i think, quite honestly, one

of the things we don't want to get distracted on because of their talking points about him smiling is, don't forget the real substances of the debate. >> right. >> >> reproduction rights for women. and there were any number of things that he got -- >> privatizing social security. >> privatizing social security. and biden did something that we said the president should have done in the first debate, is when he looked into that camera and said to seniors, wait a minute, have you lost any kind of benefits on your medicare, on your medicaid, who do you trust? these are the things that really hit home. so this is just -- and the other thing is is, they got some of their own medicine. how many times have you been on programs and they've laughed and grimaced at you when you tried

to make a point. this is just deflecting what they do all the time and they got some of their own medicine. >> well, rush limbaugh weighed in today. listen to this. >> i don't know what the ryan strategy was. well, i'm pretty confident that i do, actually. i think it was be respectful of a lunatic in hope, create an atmosphere where the lunatic thinks that he's winning everything is going to make him freer and be less inhib tif who he really is and old joey played right along with that. >> the vice president of the united states is a lunatic but that didn't stop there. they went after the moderator. martha got it from all sides. sean hannity said, martha raddatz is the worst moderator.

laura ingraham said, why does raddatz want to move on when ryan is getting traction? and then karl rove said, i miss jim lehrer. >> he's the only one that missed him. the reality is that, look, she was equal opportunity get you. there were even times that she went after vice president biden. >> no doubt. >> and everybody knows it. actually, i remind people that we have a lot of people who only listen on the radio and immediately understood who won that debate without worrying about how the president smiled. look, i think he signaled us and every time he hurts and hears something absolutely ridiculous,

unprovable, that smile came on and that really was a signal for us to pay close attention for what we were about to hear and he recognized, even before ryan fin finished, that it was ridiculous and that's what that smile was all about. >> i'm going to have to leave it there, joe. thanks. have a good weekend. joe madison. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you turn an entrepreneur's dream... ♪ into a scooter that talks to the cloud? ♪ or turn 30-million artifacts...

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